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Welcome to Nice Guys, Inc. I know you'll find tons of good information on our site for Nice Guys, Bad Boys, and everything in between.

Remember, you don't have to be a jerk to be a very sexy man!

Don't forget to check out our Nice Guys, Inc articles and also here's a great post found on the boards:

Rich, sorry this is long and scattered

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ][ Commitmentphobia ]

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Posted by Ellie on January 31 at 21:42:10:

In Reply to: Re:Rich posted by Rich on January 31, at 19:18:56:

IP:209.86.215.14

Hey Rich,

We have all been where you've been. Its usually the woman who wants to fix and help the man, help him see that he has such a great thing, and wonders for months -- how can he let such a great woman go ???!!!

When I read your posts, it reminded me of some really nice guys that I have walked away from, in panic, just like Tam said she has done. (Tam is right on the money and very eloquent in explaining what happened inside her head). I, too, probably came on strong and was happy to have a nice new man who seemed to want to look after me. I, too, was in my late 20's and early 30's. I, too, knew I was a runner, especially running from nice, caring, attentive, sensitive guys who were thrilled to be with me and imagined a fantasy future with me. All I can say is, back at that time in my life (10 years ago!) all I could do was RUN from them as soon as I felt suffocated.

Just like Tam, I felt a sense of RELIEF that I had gotten away from a relationship that was just too close and which carried too many expectations. There was this feeling that it was unbalanced, in that I knew I could probably really hurt the guy because he had put me on a pedastal so soon. Something felt "wrong" about such nice guys being so into me, so soon. It was easy to tell them all my problems, fears, challenges, desires, needs, and have them dote on every word, remembering everything I said. Then there was this feeling that they wanted desperately to "fix" me, to help me over the hurdles of trusting a new man, to help me see that THEY were the opposite of the jerks I had known before. This made me want to run even further away!!

My theory is... I think younger women (20's and early 30's) really want to be challenged, not loved too too much or accepted too much. They want to have to WORK for their love and attention from men. PLEASE NOTE I AM GENERALIZING BIG TIME...BUT do not fail to notice the number of women who choose cheaters and liars and control freaks, and fall deeply attached to them, having a terrible time letting go of them. How many nice guys have you heard say "why do all the cool girls want to date jerks??? why not ME??? I'm a nice guy and I wouldn't treat them that way!!!!"

I hate saying this, and I wish it weren't true, but when a nice guy comes along TOO SOON in a woman's life, (especially a CP woman) even if she has sworn off all jerks, she won't see his value if he is *too* nice and *too* accepting of her. She'll see him as suffocating and maybe even 'weak'. This is what CP fears are about.

When I was 30 and dating both jerks and nice guys, I felt like I had the power to work the nice guys over, to tell them anything at all and even to play games with them, and they were so into me, so trusting, so needing of my attention, that they would have let me walk all over them (just like the jerks do to women). Not good! This is a problem!!!! Not only do I NOT want to be able to walk all over someone too easily, I have a hard time respecting someone that I can win over so easily. He doesn't challenge me nor make me want to be a "better" woman, and for some reason, I (and many women) need this.

Not only this, when he continues to want to help me fix my fears, to say he knows what is best for me, to say he knows how to help me change my life, find a nice guy, and make a commitment, this is a turnoff for a CP. And then to learn that he is obsessed with whether I will return or not, praying every night that I return to him because he is so enamored with me and thinks he knows me so well, and that he is worried I will date another jerk..... well, that is a bit too protective for a CP. A CP wants to run from this. Its too much, especially after only a few months.

I guess deep in my psyche, while I was behaving like an active CP, I was noticing that there was a certain kind of nice guy who seemed to need the active CP woman, the kind of woman who didn't need them too much, who had a life of her own, who was preoccupied with all sorts of things in life, not just him. The kind of woman who seemed to have everything together except the ability to pick a NICE guy that she could trust. And these nice guys were determined to win the love of this woman who has always chosen men who break her heart, and these guys want to PROVE to her soo badly that THEY are not jerks.

Basically in a nutshell.....

I am trying to say that when a guy (or girl) is too nice and too giving, and can be walked all over (even in subtle ways) because he is SO extremely thrilled to BE with her, his putting her on a pedastal so quickly can make her RUN. Yes, she wants to be loved and adored and cared for, but not too easily. She wants to know she does not always have the upper hand all the time, and that he is not doting on her every move, analyzing her every behavior, and especially, after she leaves, he is not obsessing about her.

Somehow, the woman sees this as a weakness in a guy. I am so sorry to report this, because I wish it were not true. I heard the theory by a well known therapist that women need to respect and admire a man in order to remain in love with him. Some of this respect and admiration comes from him having healthy boundaries and confidence in himself. One of the big turnoffs is for a man to be spending too much energy trying to help the girl with her problems, especially if one of her problems is that she is not as into him as he is into her. This therapist also says that when a man is "too nice" to her, she sees this as him exhibiting soft behavior which will not do him well out there in the "real" world, where there are tigers and dragons and a need to be tough and slay them...

Your best bet, honestly Rich, is to stop any and all contact, and MOVE ON as quickly as you can. Do not put your healing or growth on hold, thinking she will make contact. Do not worry that she cannot take care of herself, or whether she hooks up with a jerk that you cannot save her from, or whether she ever sees you as the only one who was nice to her and thus worth returning to.

You have every right to believe that women do not make sense and they are just plain crazy. Sometimes our choices make NO sense at all, not even to us. They are all based on personal life histories and lessons that each of us have to learn, when we are ready to learn them. This goes for ALL human beings, including you, Rich. This is a big lesson for you to deal with very confusing emotions and needs and to learn to accept that you cannot fix or control another person's feelings.

It is very very painful to have someone turn on you, and it seems so unfair. It truly is.

But ask yourself whether you really wanted to take on her problems, especially if they included her being more attracted to jerks than to nice guys. THIS is a BIG red flag. In your next dating opportunities, I would highly recommend asking very pointed questions about what kinds of guys these women have dated, and more importantly, which ones they fell hard for. If they seem to only date men who abuse their hearts, then run the other way!! I would tell women the same thing about men. If I meet a guy who has only had his heart broken by cheating women, I am going to think very carefully about whether I want to invest my emotions into someone who has made so many painful choices, and I am going to look even more carefully at what painful lessons he has LEARNED from it.

Sorry for such a long and rambling post.

Rich, you deserve to have happiness and honest, genuine love. FIRST you must decide to give this to yourself, and not blame yourself for anything. You got attached to a CP and loved her with all your heart, and one day you will be glad that she ran away. Yes you will be glad, trust me on this one. Even if she returns much much later, you don't want her the way she is -- fearful, scared, and attracted to jerks. You just do NOT want this kind of woman as she is right now. You want her healed and with more maturity and appreciation for you. Otherwise you do not want her at all. Does this make sense...

One day your energy will be directed toward a healthier woman who will see you as the genuine, sincere, loving guy that you are.

There are lots and lots of women who would find you to be enormously precious and lovable. In my ever so humble opinion, the older the woman, the more likely she will appreciate your genuine-ness and attentiveness.

All my best to you, Rich. Be patient with your healing and be determined to heal FULLY. If you carry a torch for her all your life, then the next woman who is really great for you, won't have a chance.

Peace and hugs,

Ellie

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